Question: What do you think the main problem in the church today is? Ignorance or Apathy?
Answer: I Don’t Know… and… I Don’t Care
I had forgotten about this when I posted my article on Failed Discipleship earlier. It is a prime example of how we have succeeded at creating church members, but failed at creating disciples. Listen to this first-hand, gut-level honesty of a minister explain why they are canceling EVERYTHING at their church due to Lack of Interest:
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After watching this video, first thought we can’t heal or fix the communities. One thing that I have been inspired to do is study and walk my faith. For the teacher that is struggling in this video. Don’t quit, I’m having the same struggles were I’m at. We have thousands of members at the church that I attend. We are building a new church; the church is very active in a community that needs its services. A thought came to me, I want so bad for others to take on viewing scriptures threw Jewish eyes. And studying the times and culture of the bible. From my perspective at the moment, most of the people of the community don’t really want to know the truth. They just want help, and that help that is given must agree with how they view things. Our church is building a gym for the kids of the community. My first thought when I realized that we are building this gym was does this community really need a gym? Remember the church is not in this community to fix and heal its problems. The church is there to make solders. If this gym which will draw a good bit of children from the community will allow the church to reach one child, and this child begins to seek and study it is well worth the cost. Again we can’t fix there problems, but we can be apart of helping them become solders. Just remember you don’t know who is listening and whose life you are affecting. Don’t quit.
My personal opinion is that some churches appeal to the lowest common denominator in order to attract large crowds. They appeal to the desire for people to have “stuff” that appeals to secular needs. There’s nothing wrong with providing social functions such as basketball games and children’s fairs, but if part of the function of the body of believers is discipleship and building each other up, we must also focus on teaching and training.
But that requires hard work and time, two things most people, even within the body of believers, don’t want to generate in their already busy lives. A program or social event is something we add on to our lives. Faith is the driving force within our lives, regardless of activities. No one can create that drive within a human being except God, and not all of the programs and social events on earth will make any difference if that drive is absent.
“we must also focus on teaching and training”
I agree, but teaching and training is much easier said than done. What results are we looking for when we are training and teaching? Are we looking for them to see things our way? They spend at the most an hour or two in the presents of believers, but the rest of the time they spend in a single parent home, with a parent who may be struggle with there faith.
“some churches appeal to the lowest common denominator in order to attract large crowds.”
And this could very well be the driving force of some at the fellowship that my wife and I attend. Like the building of the gym, the previsions of food and clothes and the mentoring program to help fatherless kids. Most likely the majority of the community may be there just to get there needs met. But I can’t focus to much on the “what the majority may be thinking” I still believe that there are more who are like us who only needs to hear that one thought that can cause them to seek, that can cause them to want to understand stand who our creator is.
“But that requires hard work and time, two things most people, even within the body of believers, don’t want to generate in their already busy lives. A program or social event is something we add on to our lives. Faith is the driving force within our lives, regardless of activities. No one can create that drive within a human being except God, and not all of the programs and social events on earth will make any difference if that drive is absent.”
And you are correct, God can only create that drive, and it is a lot of hard work and it does require a lot of time that we as believers are competing with. But if the Church with all of its baggage is absent how will they hear? The lady in the video must fight and not give up.
I agree, but teaching and training is much easier said than done. What results are we looking for when we are training and teaching? Are we looking for them to see things our way? They spend at the most an hour or two in the presents of believers, but the rest of the time they spend in a single parent home, with a parent who may be struggle with there faith.
I certainly hope that ideas and differences can be discussed, but most churches don’t tolerate this. It’s one of the reasons I’m very hesitant to return to a church environment, since I’m such as “oddball”.
And this could very well be the driving force of some at the fellowship that my wife and I attend. Like the building of the gym, the previsions of food and clothes and the mentoring program to help fatherless kids. Most likely the majority of the community may be there just to get there needs met.
Actually, I was discussing programs that exist for their own sake. I wasn’t suggesting that providing services wouldn’t be helpful, but it can’t be apart from the reason we are doing so, to not only help others, but to disciple the lost and encourage the body. Feeding the body is only part of obeying God. We also need to be “feeding the soul,” if I can be permitted to employ a cliche.
My concern is that a lot of faith communities have a narrow focus on one particular area and minimize or ignore other needs. Some churches are very “spiritual” but don’t take into consideration single parents or other disadvantaged folks who need practical services. Other churches focus on practical needs, which is good, but don’t teach about the God who commands us to provide for each other. In my mind, it’s a package deal.
Darren Reply:
February 26th, 2012 at 12:33 pm
I wish I could join the conversation, but we are having a baby today. :-)
Keith Wilborn Reply:
February 26th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Congratulations on the soon to arrive baby.
:)
“I certainly hope that ideas and differences can be discussed, but most churches don’t tolerate this. It’s one of the reasons I’m very hesitant to return to a church environment, since I’m such as “oddball”.”
Trust me I know how you feel; I’m that oddball right now. And you are right a lot of members do get a little defensive when you began to challenge some of the traditions that are taught. But I keep reminding myself how I felt when my traditions got challenged. It’s not good to stay away from the fellowship. It’s a struggle, but the fellowship you may choose to attend, I’m sure someone in that fellowship may be thinking some of your thoughts but just might be afraid to bring them out, I was once one of them.
The home fellowship that I use to attend was pretty open. There were times that emotions got pretty high, but we would common down and agree to disagree. This group dissolved due to some relocating due to a new job. And some have died.
“Actually, I was discussing programs that exist for their own sake. I wasn’t suggesting that providing services wouldn’t be helpful, but it can’t be apart from the reason we are doing so, to not only help others, but to disciple the lost and encourage the body. Feeding the body is only part of obeying God. We also need to be “feeding the soul,” if I can be permitted to employ a cliche.”
I hear you, trust me I know where you are coming from.
“My concern is that a lot of faith communities have a narrow focus on one particular area and minimize or ignore other needs. Some churches are very “spiritual” but don’t take into consideration single parents or other disadvantaged folks who need practical services. Other churches focus on practical needs, which is good, but don’t teach about the God who commands us to provide for each other. In my mind, it’s a package deal. “
Actually from hearing our pastor comment on his past, his father was a pastor and it sounds like He was brought up in a very charismatic environment (Pentecostal Holiness). And now He is over a congregation that ranges from a person who is a conservative Baptist minded member to a Pentecostal minded member. So we have a wide range of thoughts. But what I’m hoping to get many to see is to start reading, begin to develop the habit of study.
And from my point of view we must learn some from the Jewish culture and learn what we can from that time period.
When I attend Sunday school, or meet with the men I always share what I have learned from the Ancient Hebrew website, or this website and many more. Some show some interest and write down some of the references and then makes a comment that they will go check them out. Even if they choose not to view things from a Jewish perspective, I’m hoping they will at least begin the habit of reading.
Mazel Tov, Darren.
When I attend Sunday school, or meet with the men I always share what I have learned from the Ancient Hebrew website, or this website and many more. Some show some interest and write down some of the references and then makes a comment that they will go check them out. Even if they choose not to view things from a Jewish perspective, I’m hoping they will at least begin the habit of reading.
I had an email conversation with someone recently that said something similar. It’s difficult to imagine a church being able to tolerate someone who chooses to view the Messiah through the lens of Jewish commentary. In my previous church experience, someone once commented that I knew a lot about the Old Testament, but it was said in a way that wasn’t a compliment. I’ve heard that you can never go “home” again, though in looking back, I have to wonder if I ever considered the church “home”. If I didn’t know what I know now, it would be easier, but as another saying goes, “you can’t unring a bell.” For better or worse, I am who I am.
James – Something that you need to understand in all my posts, is that my family & I have a church home. We’ve made the effort to return to the church to affect change, rather than point fingers from the outside. I have a great hope that there will be people like us who inspire those within the traditional church to do more than show up for Sunday services, but to knuckle down and really wrestle with the Holy Writ. From there, just like you said, it is up to the Holy Spirit. But we can act as the catalyst for change by either making our faith journey appealing, or by pushing them away from a wonderful life in pursuit of the Holy One of Israel. I am one who thinks we can make a difference, with the help of the Almighty.
That’s complicated in my life because it’s not “my family & I having a church home,” it’s me. Regardless of whatever decision I make, relative to my family, I will always be alone. In addition to whatever else you take into the church with you, I will be taking that with me…assuming I choose to finally go.
I intended to comment on this post a couple of times and something always happens before I start typing. I watched the video and it was sad to see. I have seen this same sentiment over and over again in the last few years, particularly from some of the mainline denomination folks, but not exclusively from them.
It was just a couple of years ago, in fact, that Willow Creek announced that they did an internal survey that showed that their people didn’t care as much about the plethora of programs that were available in the church, they wanted more Bible study and other discipleship type groups.
My own church had gotten to a point before we came here over four years ago that there weren’t a whole lot of extraneous programs running about still. We are trying to focus on doing those things that will promote making disciples and intend to start a small group ministry focused on that end this year, Lord willing.
The only way things are going to change is if we stop looking at what we can do.We must rely on Jesus and ask Him what He wants done instead of doing the things we have done in the past or through tradition. James I am sorry that you feel so alone. There are people in this world that would love to have fellowship with you. If you are not connected with others who love Christ you are robbing them of getting to know you. It’s not about us it is all about Jesus. The way they will know we are His is by our LOVE for one another. Have a blessed day. Rest in His finished work.